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Challenge
Povilas S Jun 01, 2022
Come up with a bar alternative where people socialize equally well, but without alcohol
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Can you envision a public place where people come to actively socialize without alcohol or/and drugs? What would it look like, what means would encourage socializing and what would be the business model (if needed) to sustain it?
The background:
Bars are arguably the best places for socializing. Even if you're not a very social person and come there alone, you'll most likely find someone to talk to. However, alcohol is a major component in this, and drinking, especially frequent, has a significant cost both healthwise and moneywise.
People who want to socialize, but don't want to drink basically have two options:
- They can go to a bar and stay sober drinking non-alcoholic beverages. The main disadvantage of this is that you can only do that for so long without getting pulled into drinking. Another disadvantage is that you still have to pay for drinks just to be there.
- They can go to places where people don't drink but socialize. And that's where we get to the problem - can you think of a public place dedicated to active socializing without alcohol? There are little to none of those (depending on where you are).
Things to note:
Apart from alcohol, there are other things in bars that encourage socializing. One is the bar itself (as an interior design element) - it is made to encourage socializing between unfamiliar people. Another is various forms of entertainment - table games, karaoke, jukeboxes, etc. All those means can be used to create a publicly open place for socializing without alcohol.
Creating a non-alcoholic bar (a bar that serves only non-alcoholic beverages) is not a very good solution, because you'd still have to pay for drinks just to be there, and to make things worse you'd pay for drinks that don't make it any easier to socialize. It would be better to pay a small entrance fee and best if you could enter and stay there for free.
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Creative contributions
Cafes with bar-like interior
Even though coffee is also psychoactive and not very healthy, especially if consumed often, it's arguably healthier and cheaper than alcohol.
Being a stimulant, caffeine also encourages socializing, for some people even better than alcohol. The ritualistic act of drinking a hot beverage also benefits the socializing aspect.
Some cafes also have bars (interior design element) where you could sit, have a coffee and talk to people next to you. The bar element at the cafes could simply be enlarged to allow more people to sit and mingle together.
PS: I'm not competing for my own bounty.
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brainstorming clubs
This is not so much for everyone, rather for intellectuals. However for some high IQ regions (for example, uni campus), it may be workable. Let everyone come and participate in brainstorming competing for prizes. To enter, one pays some amount. It includes food, soft drinks, legal and good for health stimulators of brain activity, exercise machines for training brain functions, trainings and education for improving intelligence and developing its functions. At the same time you can use this playing and self-motivated adults as an engine for the business of problem solving in interest of clients: average to big biz + governmental, political and public organizations. Also, you can translate the best teams on TV for selling advertising. It may be like the brain ring game, but with a real goal: solving real problems, both for common good and sponsored by private clients. For businesses and public organizations, public people, sponsoring such games and participation in them may be a way of publicity and building image.
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Povilas S2 years ago
This contribution inspired me to develop the idea into a bit different concept which would be more suitable for the general public. That's what's needed to make the solution effective according to the challenge quest. Hence the award for it. The upgraded idea is here.
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Povilas S2 years ago
It could be simpler than this and available for the general public. Pretty much everyone can brainstorm. There could be a social brainstorming place where you would come and take a position of either an ideator or someone who offers a problem to solve. People would shift their roles from time to time.
Talking about a personal problem in front of unfamiliar people takes some guts, so it is a challenge and a social igniter at the same time. Helping others to solve their problems also serves as a social glue, strengthening relationships. It seems it would be a win-win situation and a place people would want to come to as long as they had some guts to step out of their comfort zone (which is necessary when socializing anyway).
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Mikhail Korsanov2 years ago
Povilas S yep, mutual problem solving may be either a separate way of socializing in a club, or a part of the brainstorming game - one of its sections.
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Tweaking the traditional concept.
Z
First of all, I don't think that paying an entrance to a bar/place is better than a place which provides food and drinks for money. I mean, at some point we have to drink and eat. I also think it's psychological tricky. My thesis: Even people feel alone they don't want to show in the public that they are so needy that they would go to a place which is exklusively made for socialicing where maybe there are even no drinks or food. Thats why bars are such a great invention, you can go there alone for a drink and think about life or observing the scene or try to mingle.
So I want to propose how we could strengthen the social bonds in this bar and inspire strangers to talk to each others: 1. No smartphones in the bar. They have to leave it at the door. 2. No music (Music is also disturbing the conversation as you have to listen harder) 3. Talk-Corner (What have you always wanted to tell the world? Everyone thiry minutes you can tell thirty seconds what have you always wanted to tell the world? As an incentive we can provide a voucher for a drink) 4. You can also open a bar which provides for every day another talk event. Monday: Talk with a stranger....Saturday: Romantic talks. Wednesday: Business talk. 5. Bios of the guests: The problem for many people getting to know each other is that they don’t know how to start. So everyone has to leave some informations about himself and make a selfie (maybe through an app) which will be projected as a dia show on the wall.
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Povilas S2 years ago
Good ideas. I wouldn't agree with no music though. If the music is not too loud, it doesn't disturb communication. What the music does is lifts people's mood and takes away the otherwise "awkward" silence in the establishment.
If you sit at one table with someone and talk - everyone else around will hear you unless they are also talking. This might be good for randomly joining the conversation, but people who want to talk rather privately would feel uncomfortable about others hearing them. Music makes it harder to hear others around you talk, you can focus on the music rather than private conversations.
Because of all those reasons every bar, cafe, restaurant keeps the music playing at virtually all times during their working hours.
Another thing - as I understand, you propose improving socialization in the traditional, alcohol-serving bars right? The challenge is about making people socialize without alcohol. The suggestions you mentioned in the second paragraph could instead be used in places serving non-alcohol drinks only.
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Dating game
In fact, many of the bar visitors come there to find a person of the opposite (or the same, for homosexuals) sex, for different purposes: sex, friendship, relationships, family.
Many people are not interested to call things their names: they say "I go to bar to have a rest", while their real need satisfied may be finding a match.
I propose to develop an interpersonal game, that will include intensive and in-depth getting to know each other, communication, a thrill, joint activity, an opportunity to help each other and sacrifice by something in the sake of another person so that to allow him/her to win. This game must be addictive enough to spur people to get back again and again.
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Povilas S2 years ago
That would be a variant of a dating club. We shouldn't limit the activities only to dating, because some people who want to socialize are not interested in dating and some are interested only to some extent. However, something similar to your proposition could, and perhaps should be included amongst other activities.
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Psychological methods to facilitate socializing and emotional openness instead of alcohol
Alcohol helps communication with other people, because it removes fear and shame. So, people become more open emotionally. Why not to help people use psychological methods as in https://goo.su/IB7 to work out social fears and other psychological barriers to communication and emotions exchange with other people. Also, you can explore, what substances are health friendly and stimulate empathy: this may allow to use them to improve talks.
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Social Caves
I propose "Social caves" as a solution. I envision them as bars where, for one night a week, you can hangout with people who have similar interests as yourself.
For example, if you love novels, come around on Tuesday night to socialize with other book lovers. But instead of simply sitting around discussing books, you can participate in indoor games themed around books, as well as console games with similar themes.
If you love cars, show up on Wednesday night to socialize with like-minded individuals. There can be racing games, quizzes on cars, "Who can fix this car in the shortest possible time," and other games themed around cars.
I propose that one or two nights are left free for experimenting with other interests. And those interests with the most fans can replace the ones that drop off and have permanent slots.
I think the combination of shared interests and games will more than make up for the absence of alcohol and, thus, make people loosen up like they would if they had a couple of beers.
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What about the existing sport, skill and hobby clubs?
I was reading through the session and contributions and I was pretty surprised how alcohol-oriented is your perspective of socializing. Bars are great, full of alcohol, but nobody forces you to drink it. I have few friends that never drank even a bit of alcohol and they are crazy social.
However, to tackle your problem of socializing, I want to propose hanging out in sports, skills and hobby clubs.
Why?
- It's an already existing system that needs no implementation.
- My grandfather once said that only the people you "built" something with will honestly feel a great loss when you die one day. These clubs are places where people with the same passions gather, bond and socialize. That's where we find our purpose.
- There is no alcohol if some other passion strongly connects you.
Personal touch
I am a member of a sport club since I was 6. I feel strong connection with these people. We shared great sport moments, a lot of sweat, tears and laughs, but the most importantly, we shared important life moments. When I was mad, I went to the gym and there was someone to talk to or train with. Sometimes we drank, yes, but we were mostly connecting through sport. Being a member of such club makes me feel like a small part of something small, but meaningful. It's way better than a bar.
Existing problem
However, it seems to me that bars are social centers for people who don't have, didn't yet find or don't share common passions. The main problem is still to find a solution for socializing of two or more people who doesn't share something.
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Povilas S2 years ago
The fact that any random person can come to a bar and as a consequence, the public there will vary greatly regarding passions, interests, education, occupation, etc. on one hand might be considered an obstacle, but on the other is actually a benefit for socializing.
Just like with brainstorming - people from different backgrounds can each bring their piece to the table and create something original and valuable together. The same is true for relationships/communication.
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jnikola2 years ago
Povilas S I agree, but people going to the same club necessarily share only one passion, not everything. That's why socialization should not be very different. On contrary, it should be more open and easier-going than socialization in bars. Hehehe, the last sentence is very brainstorming.com-like, but it's bars, not lecture rooms. Chances of people meeting and talking are often smaller than in the clubs.
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Povilas S2 years ago
J. Nikola Well, I wouldn't agree with the last sentence. If you take away alcohol - then yes, but generally bars are about the most social places you can find. It also depends on the bar, if it's more a dining place where people mostly sit at the tables separately, then yes, but if it's a bar like it should be, communication between strangers or barely familiar people is more than usual.
I understand what you say about easier socialization due to common passion. I agree that it might be easier, but at the same time, it's a bit of an inside-the-box environment (one topic) and similar passions bring about similar people. Getting out of (in a sense) confined environment you also might feel more free to simply be yourself and talk with anyone you want.
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Cafes and restaurants where people practice their sales skills but also saying "no" to others
Cafes and restaurants that double as training grounds for salespeople. Practice introductions, starting conversations, and selling stuff that people don't need. Also, practice saying no to others.
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Povilas S2 years ago
It would have to be organized in a different way than described in your idea. The aim is to encourage ordinary people to come and socialize. It could instead be turned into a game where you try to sell anything lying around to others at the table/bar or bring some weird/peculiar stuff and try selling it.
One or two people would take the roles of salesmen while others would be the potential clients, people would exchange the roles periodically. However, even then not everyone would be interested to socialize that way. But it could be one of many games offered at the place to help incite socializing.
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Darko Savic2 years ago
Povilas S that's pretty much how the idea was supposed to work
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The perpetual costume party place
Bars that require costumes for entry, all year long.
When people are in costumes and masks, it gives them a layer of freedom due to an increased sense of anonymity. They are not themselves completely, they are openly pretending to be someone or something else. This freedom makes people less anxious about socializing. Which is definitely needed for sober interaction with strangers.
Possibly more importantly, the costumes give the context to socializing. In common bars, most people are just regular folk with little on them that is a conversation starter. Yes the clothes might be nice, but so is almost everyone's.
But at costume parties, the masks are great for breaking the ice. Be it police officers, soldiers, or cowboys, there is context already to the stranger. And even more so in combination, if a person masked as a convict and a person masked as a judge meet. Easiest light silly conversation starter ever - "couldn't believe you gave me 10 years in prison..."; "well, you shouldn't have defrauded all those widowed grandmas".
This principle of items on you as conversation starters is why pickup artists recommend that guys should have some unusual piece of clothing on them. Like suspenders, a thumb ring, a weird tie. It makes people comment on it and break the mold of usual interactions. I had a weirdly coloured debit card and 80% of cashiers and waiters commented on it, got a bit excited. It wasn't the usual robotic interaction.
Now imagine seeing someone dressed as your favourite character from a TV show. You'd have to say something.
Business model:
For decoration, the club can have manekins that are dressed in costumes people had on before to set the tone. Also, every room can be differently designed, one medieval, the other sci-fi, third ancient...
People can market their previously worn costumes for sale at the place and the percentage goes to the establishment.
The place can also rent out costumes in advance to the bar goers. This bar is actually a great additional business idea for costume renting places which don't have a lot of work past Halloween.
Make up artists can pay for advertising at the spot.
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Povilas S2 years ago
Good idea, but I think in practice this wouldn't be very efficient. Not everyone would want to get a costume just to go to a place where you can socialize. Also, this would get boring after some time to people who go there often, it's likely it would get boring soon. "It's costumes every time, give me a break":)
Also, I agree that an outstanding element of appearance helps break the socializing ice, but at the same time, you can’t see the true people behind the masks, this increases the feeling of social separation. If costumes and masks are all you see there, you’d begin questioning the value of such social interactions.
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Miloš Stanković2 years ago
Povilas S There are subcultures like cosplayers who would love it. So would theatre nerds, actors, and LARPers too (they meet weekly during the day).
In the heyday of Game of Thrones I believe you've would've packed the place every week with a GOT theme. And themes are a way of attracting new people and keeping it fresh. One day it's sports team theme and everyone comes as their favorite football player from the city's big teams. Another day it's a specific TV show. The next, a movie that came out that year, next week a lifelong cinema classic. Then a painters of the past and you atract the art community. Video game community next week. If there's a big concert in town, you do a warm up with a night dedicated to the band or the genre. With no themes most of the time.
Of course, it wouldn't work in a small town. Yet in massive cities, especially the ones with artistic backgrounds, like Los Angeles or New York, it would surely work. Also San Diego, (that's where COMICON happens) Berlin, Austin, Tokyo...
For the last paragraph, I think the issue wouldn't be that drastic because you're still speaking with people. Actually, the interaction could be effected less by aesthetic ("superficial") matters, like the way a person looks. But primarily, most costumes wouldn't be that complex and covering to completely dehumanize the person. What you would lose in people looking strange you would gain in them feeling more free to be open.
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Miloš Stanković2 years ago
For what is worth now, I realized that the space and the concept can be used for team building for companies and hence have a lot of customers.
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DM Headphone Event
Headphone raves. It's an EDM music event where everyone gets headphones to listen to music, and speakers don't exist. It's perfect for introverts because you're in the company of others without needing to talk to them.
Such events are energetic, so people tend to drink water more than any other beverage.
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Games that require collaboration
A place could be filled with various games that require collaboration to be played. Games are good for boosting your feel-good neurotransmitters, getting you high naturally. Additionally, a need for partners to play encourages socializing.
A good example of such a game is table football. It's not often that people come in groups of four or more, so those who want to play a full set have to search for partners on the spot, this is a good social igniter.
One can come up with a variety of games that require collaboration and preferably collaboration with unfamiliar people, for example - a puzzle game where you need people with different expertise to solve it, or a table game where you need many pairs of hands to control the machinery, etc.
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Miloš Stanković2 years ago
Board game clubs exist, people rent out a table and a game and then play it. Although these places often also serve alcohol usually, they are commercially viable without it. Some people come with formed groups, but there also those who need an extra person, or come alone.
They are also great for socializing because there is extra context and if it's a role-playing game, shy people can "hide" behind their characters.
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Povilas S2 years ago
Miloš Stanković Board games are a too narrow niche for the place to be welcoming for different types of people. One should preferably put many types of games there.
It would be best if at least some of the games were novel, never heard of before (the creators of the place would have to come up with the ideas for the games themselves) and would encourage collaboration between unfamiliar people. Old games could be replaced by new ones from time to time, to keep the place interesting.
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Upscale LAN parties
As top gaming PCs are still very pricey, there might be room for the resurgence of video game LAN parties as a way for socializing. Just maybe have them look less juvenile or have special gaming centers that require guests 21 years or older as some bar establishments do. Some sports bars or betting places now look like elegant bars, the same principle can be done with video game centers.
The contact is far more personal than online gaming as you can shout what you want towards the other side, glance at them, not just type short messages in abbreviation.
Although there would have to be a need for more female-friendly games, in order to mimic the courting aspect of bars.
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Alcohol substitutes
I suggest some other natural substances to be used to stimulate endorphins, dopamine and oxytocin production. Investigate methodology of homeopathic: they have interesting approaches to stimulate organism to produce necessary substances.
These homeopathic drugs should slightly shift the body's homeostasis for these hormones into the negative, then the organism will resist and produce more hormones of happiness: a person will catch a buzz.
Btw, this may be a way new market... replacing alcohol and illegal drugs. Not just replacement for alcohol in bars :) but in general. It can be used in therapy of substances dependancies and in recreational purposes. Yes, it may possibly develop psychological dependancy too, but it will not hurt health, at least, as opposite to alcohol and illegal drugs.
I guess, you understand how to monetize it... patent it and sell. It's a big biz ;) You should only have resources to fight against strong corporations who sell traditional drugs and alcohol.
I have not invented this approach, it exists already in homeopathy: for example, in ANAFERON antibodies to human interferon gamma are used to stimulate human interferon production to fight viruses.
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Povilas S2 years ago
Homeopathic methodology is generally considered to be pseudoscientific. I'm not against it myself, but it's the first time I hear that it can be used the way you described here. Did you or someone else try this and found it to be effective in boosting one's mood?
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Mikhail Korsanov2 years ago
Povilas S I am not a specialist in medicine and physiology, however my experience of using homeopathy is mostly positive, it helped a lot. I suppose, pseudoscientific status of homeopathy may be caused by commercial interests of big pharma, or even more: big politics, not by its real unworkability.
Also, the very idea of slight suppressing some function of a complex system to increase this function production, is quite scientific. This works with society, with live organisms, in psychology (provocative psychotherapy, also seduction in sex games), with a population of animals or plants, in business, in marketing, in politics, etc. - almost any self-regulating system. I don't know if this is possible with pleasure, I did not try it, however it is worth a try. When one gets into troubles, most of people get positive emotions after finishing it. Slight problems are fun to solve. That's why games give a pleasure. Perhaps, this will also work physiologically.
As for the first time, okay, we are here to invent new approaches :)
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Shubhankar Kulkarni2 years ago
Povilas S I have heard that homeopathic medicines contain minuscule amounts of active ingredients. They are in the range of parts per million in the dose given. It may, therefore, take longer to show its effects. However, on the brighter side, they have very less side-effects.
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Organized social life club
Thematical evenings, trainings, lections on interesting topics, including distant ones, games offline and online with other teams via the Net, Mafia, brain ring, brainstorming problems, discussion club, dating games, and others. Family holidays and weekends with children and with tamada (professional game organizer or animator).
The key here is to organize it professionally. Since, not in every region and town there are professionals of this kind, it will be possible to hire them remotely on the big screen. You only need a very good and reliable Internet connection, otherwise interruptions and flaws in connection may spoil the fun. This may be achieved by using several internet connections in parallel with an automatic router ensuring that the connection is as fast and reliable as possible.
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Tea and coffee bars
Open up tea and coffee bars where you just don't drink regular tea/coffee, but where you can choose from different varieties of them from all over the world.
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A 'hangover' club
I propose setting up 'Hangover clubs' in cities.
Usually, partying occurs on Friday and Saturday nights in the most parts of the world. People get too drunk and wasted, and the next day almost all partygoers are too hungover to do the usual stuff. Hence, set up special Hangover clubs where a bunch of hungover partygoers come together and socialize.
Such a club can then gradually extend its activity. Maybe when people start seeing each other too hungover for most weekends, it might help them make realise that they are drinking more than they need to. People might come up with alternatives to drinking during parties.
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Povilas S2 years ago
Some partygoers often still drink during the hangover (to alleviate it). It's not such heavy drinking as the original one, but it's still alcohol consumption.
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Social interaction app specific for the bar
Create a tinder-like app, specific for the bar, where people can make check-in on the bar and then look at profiles of people that are in the bar and then have a "match" with some individuals.
The app could provide some days that work like the bumblebee app, days when only the woman can start a conversation on the app and invite other people to come and interact with them at a table on the bar or to share a snack.
Considering a more "group of friends" kind of interaction, the app could support challenges on games that are available on the bar (I once visited a bar where you could play old super Nintendo video games and I loved it. beat everyone on rockandroll racing).
As the bar is for socializing without alcohol, people can challenge each other on those games for a non-alcohol beer or a round of french fries for the group.
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Inter-office "Happy hour/ Social hour" app
Everyone works for a living - either alone or as a part of a team. Even when you work alone, you communicate with others like your clients, people with whom you share your trade, people that help you with infrastructure that you need, etc.
Introducing inter-office "social hour" app, where people from your team meet other teams from the same or a different office.
There are only two criteria:
- The two teams shouldn't be interacting with each other regularly for work.
- The available time slots are between 8 am and 5 pm on weekdays. This is to encourage you to conduct the social hour in the office time where you don't drink.
Your team or you as a freelancer updates your "free hours" on the app for the week. It needs to be one whole hour. You decide whether you want to meet in person or on a call. If you are meeting in person, you also need to mention the locations you are okay with. You also get to decide the frequency of social hour. It is once a week by default but could be more frequent based on your convenience. Other teams from over the world are matched with you / your team according to the time you have set. At that time, a virtual room is made available for the members to enter and chat, call, etc. If they are meeting in person, they get to decide on a place that is convenient to all members. Multiple freelancers could be matched and a room could be created for them.
This will ease the work tension a bit and create social and probably (and inevitably) professional connections. It could be a great place to show off your talents outside work. While updating your availability, you could also incorporate different games you would like to play (if at all). You could be matched with similar people.
Why in teams? A few known people around can make social interaction easier for shy people.
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Individual cafe-rooms with drone automated delivery of food and beverages
In addition to dating, cafes are used for business meetings. Why not create a service of offices for business and private meetings scattered throughout the city in places where it can be most in demand? Renting 10 sq. m. meters for a meeting room is much easier and cheaper than making a completely new cafe.
Food and drinks can be delivered there by drone on order via the Internet completely automatically. In this case, alcohol may not be delivered, but there will still be demand, because people need a place for purposeful meetings.
To relax and promote sociability, you can include special electronic social game machines in such booths-games to remove emotional communication barriers. These games can be played by both or all participants who are present in the room - it can be part of a ritual of communication. Of course, you need to develop these games that provide guranteed relax and easier communication with anyone present in the room.
To make it more attractive, you can make visitors to pay for time or only for orders, or even for a month with the right to visit it at special time daily with free food and beverages.
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General comments
Goran Radanovic2 years ago
Headphone raves. It's an EDM music event where everyone gets headphones to listen to music, and speakers don't exist. It's perfect for introverts because you're in the company of others without needing to talk to them.
Such events are energetic, so people tend to drink water more than any other beverage.
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Miloš Stanković2 years ago
Goran Radanovic They might be energetic, but let's be real, that's not the main reason why people mostly drink water there. It's drug use.
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Darko Savic2 years ago
Good solutions will probably involve some kind of group activities that cause the release of feel-good chemicals in the brain (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, adrenaline, endorphins). Watching a sports game among like-minded people (fans) is an example of a group activity that releases feel-good chemicals without the need for alcohol. Standup comedy as well.
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Povilas S2 years ago
Darko Savic Also, games that you play yourself. A good example of a game that encourages people to socialize is table football. It's not often that people come in groups of four so if you're, say, two, you'd most likely be looking for partners to play with, so people who hang at a table to watch usually socialize. Table football is also a game that gives you pretty high adrenaline and dopamine levels, more so than other table games I'd say, so you get high on the endogenous chemicals too.
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Miloš Stanković2 years ago
Povilas S Darko Savic yet all of these activities are deeply linked with alcohol consumption. Watching sports usually happens in bars with loads of beer, or at someone's home, where beer is also expected. Live games are even worse for this matter. Stand-up bars usually have a two-drink minimum for entry. Table football is usually also located in bars, pubs.
How would one go about organising non-alcoholic versions of these events without going through Alcoholics Anonymous or similar groups?
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