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Does the narrative always have to be written by the winners?

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Contrived _voice
Contrived _voice Apr 05, 2022
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A way to let people know what the experience was like for the losing side for both current and historical conflicts. Is there a way to create a "losers gallery" to try and piece together a different story of history? If war propaganda is clearly a thing, then how much of history is war propaganda?
Why?
  • Have you ever wondered what it was like to be conquered by alexander the great or raided by the Mongol army or colonized by a foreign state? would you not like to know?
  • Wars are huge historical markers for change of power and we have records of what took place in the majority of them, but how much of that information is facts and how much is fiction crafted to help the victors sleep easier with bloodied hands?
  • Doing research on a historical event more often than not gets you results from the point of who prevailed and you need to do a really deep dive to find another perspective on the matter. There has to be a way to consolidate all that information in one place.
Thought process
I fell down a rabbit hole doing research on the history of ancient Judah and israel. I discovered some pretty surprising things but what got me frustrated was how hard it was to find useful information about what happened to a community after they were defeated or taken over. It was mostly vague descriptions like; "after the battle, they scattered and lived as small tribes." Sure, that's helpful but where did they scatter to?, what was the population size?, how did they learn new crafts and when? Couldn't we just lump together our collective sources on one page and finally find out what happenned to everyone who wasn't in the limelight of history?
history
2
Creative contributions

Role of the survivors and foreign press people in war-affected areas

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jnikola
jnikola Apr 29, 2022
Unfortunately, I agree with Goran Radanovic. History will always be written by conquistadors and winners rather than "losers".
The most important role here could be played by the war survivors that suffered the horror of war but managed to escape. Their stories could be turned into books and facts. Many people will have trouble trusting them since there aren't many sources of information like in the case of the winners, and that's what we must focus on.
Another important role could be played by the foreign press people that visit the area affected by war. The problem is that many press people have been expelled from places where horrible things were about to happen. There could be a law that helps them to freely document this. However, the current war in Ukraine shows us the law is here to be broken, so I am afraid the same would happen with these press-related laws, too.
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Shireesh Apte
Shireesh Apte2 years ago
Since victors (fittest) write (long term) history, this makes the fittest model proliferate through the ages (which is desirable). hence, I don't see much value in letting the losers write history. Propaganda is transitory, the Third Reich ultimately failed.
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Contrived _voice
Contrived _voice2 years ago
Shireesh Apte Fair, but I still think the losers deserve a voice if only for retrospection and improvement. Taking the third Reich as an example, sure, their motivations were ill and they did commit crimes against humanity but everyone forgets that a bunch of scientists that were part of it were later lauded as heroes of the space race. It's about taking the good parts from the losers and using them to build better systems.
Propaganda is transitory but the truth shouldn't be. We need the losers to fact-check the winners
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Satellite tracking

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jnikola
jnikola Apr 29, 2022
Maybe the best method to track the changes and the progress of the war is to use satellites. With the expansion of Starlink satellite network, they would be available everywhere. AI could be used to track changes in real-time and inform about the changes in both troops. Sort of a troop log could be created to support written or recorded actions. Of course, further development of satellites with high-magnification or thermal vision would greatly enhance the tracking.
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Contrived _voice
Contrived _voice2 years ago
As the possibility of war creeps back into the realm of possibility, I think this could offer the public an inside perspective of what really happens. It becomes easy to justify war crimes and genocide as means to an end when the public can't rationalize them as real events that affected real people. I think that as long as people can't "see" the ravages of war firsthand, there will always be people lobbying for military action
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jnikola
jnikola2 years ago
Contrived _voice I agree with every word you have written.
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General comments

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Goran Radanovic
Goran Radanovic2 years ago
In many instances, the defeated army isn't around to tell the tale. Even if they managed to survive, the victors would stipulate as part of the peace treaty that they drive the narrative.
I can imagine in the olden days that the victors would've threatened to return and cause more havoc if the defeated army spread their side of the story. Because the defeated side has fewer men after a battle, they would've succumbed to threats.
As a side note, reading this challenge made me think of the meme about the French military. The joke is, if you google 'French military victories', Google asks you, 'Did you mean French military defeats?'
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Contrived _voice
Contrived _voice2 years ago
Goran Radanovic I think someone had to have said something. even reports sometimes get passed down through history.
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